[Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

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[Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by Mike » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:42 pm

Hello all,

With the expansion of Marine Operations on Starbase 332, I'd like to submit Reinhart's M-705 Battle Tank for the perusal (and hopefully approval) of R&D. I think it would be a nice option for our marines to have and I hope that Msr. Reinhart won't mind my using his specifications for it. You can see the entry here:

http://www.uss-shiloh.com/index.php?pag ... e&entry=31

The only change I would make is the list of available starships (the specs were made quite a while ago). I would recommend:
  • Nebula Class (With storage Pod)
    Excalibur Class
    Lexington Class
    Sovereign Class
    Serenity Class Transport
    Excelsior Refit Class
What do you reckon?
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by jp Gifford » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:42 pm

A respectfully submitted plea to R&D...

State of the art weapons platform. Period. It would allow Ground forces better control of vital terrain in peacetime or in medium to high conflict areas. The Mattis, (M-705) could play a pivotal role in committing to our allies our commitment to their safety. The value of the system when deployed due to it's design would enable the flexibility of several roles from recon to direct assault without Artillery or costly air support.

The Mattis would be the next gen solution for getting more done with less. The projected force of the weapons system would refine Marine Expedition forces and save lives, and give divine support to our ground assets (Marines).

I would look forward to working with a system of this caliber!

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AKA/ Jonathan Gifford
Major, 14 Marine Battalion
SB 332
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by brendan81 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:32 pm

problem is that marines don't have tanks. In my opinion adding a tank to starfleet doesn't add anything roleplaying wise.

The role of starfleet marines in my opinion is to assist in boarding actions and as quick reaction force. A tank would give them a role they aren't designed for......... deep in land combat. I think starfleet has groundforce units.(http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Starfl ... und_Forces)

The marines are mainly as their predecessors before them a quick reaction unit aimed mainly at boarding and raiding(well, that's their job in most european earth navy's).

So adding tanks to their arsenal would remove the element what they are mainly designed for.
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by brendan81 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:35 pm

also thinking about it. Why have tanks if you can sweep the ground with runabouts, fighters and ships first. It's the 24th century if the enemy has tanks just lock on to them and beam them into space.
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by Mike » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:44 pm

I think it's yet another one of these issues where I personally don't see why we should be limited by 'what could happen' and look at what we'd 'like to happen'. In my mind, the marines would have some kind of heavy ordnance and while I don't see them having artillery or anything like that (although I think artillery is mentioned during the Dominion War but only the Dominion side- can't be sure), I don't think tanks are too much of a stretch.

I don't see it as being something that would be used very often but I think it's something which yet again, we can add in to provide an extra dimension to our games. As with anything in Pegasus Fleet, COs won't have them forced upon them but if they have the class of ship/station which can take them and they have a Marine Company outfitted with them, I don't see any reason not to have them.

Like I say, I think it's another opportunity for us to expand the accepted definition of what is Star Trek. Once again, I don't see them being used very often but I think it's safe to say that the Marines are the closest thing that Starfleet has to 'an army' and they shouldn't just be for boarding and raiding. To me, a lot of poor Marine writing (and I've seen some kickers in my time) comes from the limitation of the role of the marines. I think coming up with innovative (although I will admit that tanks aren't exactly a technological innovation) ways to expand their role can only lead to better work among UFP Marines across the fleet.
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by jp Gifford » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:46 pm

The 24th Century, A good reason to keep a watchful eye on our proposed technology. We’re not sure what the future will hold casting a grand look forward past Warp techs and other amazing discoveries. One could argue the need for many things.. Perhaps the need for actual engineers.. Well I would think most routine repairs would be conducted by robotics as directed by the main computer system much like the systems in Car manufacturing plants today. Logistics has already been taken over by robotics in many Bush (Beer) plants in Florida and Missouri. Yes this includes the loading of trucks. It’s completely automated. Since it’s upgrade the Hoover dam and plant is run by Six people. Our Current techs are backwards yet. The Air Bus 300 can be operated by one person. But it takes over 1200 to repair it…LOL

In American History marines primary function was to REPEL boarders of vessels. They found Marines posted in the rigging could sweep the decks of attacking vessels and hamper gun crews and snipe enemy officers. In our fleet time it really isn’t clear if the Federation has an Army. But, as we branch out into areas and discover new systems it is expected to protect the vital terrain. That can only be accomplished by ‘Boots on the Ground’. Large fleet vessels may not be readily available to support missions of this nature. Unless of course a path of technology is developed to define the mission of Fleet Marines.

I would presume that would take a bit of time not to mention Argument. I have witnessed some fleets, and Sims avoid Marines entirely as they believe them a Non-Canon issue. Now to set the record straight, I enjoy writing for all of the positions, Engineer, Shuttle pilot Captain or Marine.. And to marginalize any wouldn’t serve the fleet well. The Fleet must expand. We should be open to anything to avoid limiting our overall capabilities. I don’t by any way accept turning this into the wild, wild west. But I have seen a few fleets have success with colonization. These Sims have thrived.

Tanks? could be useful. But that’s certainly not my call… But I would use them.
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by brendan81 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:14 pm

The main aim of starfleet is exploration not colonisation. Yet, starfleet would assist in colonisation and would provide security,engineering and scientific help. Yet colony security would be handled by the security forces of the colony. Trained by starfleet security, marines and/or Starfleet ground forces.

I am sorry, but even now in the 21st century the tank is slowly getting antiquated. So in my opinion canon or not the Tank 24th century wise is out of date as slow cumbersome piece of equipment. Where as we see now that the armoured vehicle is replacing the tank in most forms of combat.

I think we rather see multi use vehicle like:
the argo (buggy)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Argo_%28buggy%29
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by jp Gifford » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:56 pm

Yes your point is very valid. From the newsroom view. I know after a few years of driving Light assault vehicles that they are a blast.. Ask how many Marines like them after they hit a roadside mine... Good for the budget but not practical in the field. Buggies don't stop bullets or shrapnel. Guess it depends on where your sitting, in your living room it's ok. Out on the road without protection just sucks...
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by brendan81 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:27 pm

Off topic:
Thanks for proving that tanks are out of date. if a tank is hit by a roadside mine, takes a few hours to get it back in action. While vehicles like the bushmaster,cougar etc show that even though hit by IEDs the occupants survive and a replacement can be sent way faster then a tank is repaired.


On topic:
To the point of if our marines should have tanks and like I said in my opinion it doesn't add anything to them. It's like painting my ship black with red flames on the side.

Why? Because she might go faster. and it makes it look cooler

It's pure vanity, because it looks cool on the website and to prove a point a GM will use the tanks in one mission and then forgot about them. At this moment it does not add anything yet to the fleet at this moment. If we had a planet sim, maybe. If there was a war with ground combat, definitely.

Would I then give the marines a tank....... no. Why, because marines still are a quick reaction force and as far as I know a tank isn't a very fast machine.
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Re: [Proposed] M-705 Main Battle Tank

Post by Williams » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:55 pm

I agree that marines should be a quick reaction force rather than an army - afterall, aside from the fact that the Federation doesn't have much use for the kind of ground wars which have been about in our history, our current marines tend to be much more than just anti-boarding party soldiers; they usually tend to take part in specialist combat - amphibious assaults mainly, but that would necessitate some other small unit tactic skills when the marines actually get onto the beach, especially if they're sneaking.

Personally, I've nothing against having a ground vehicle for marine use, but it should be smaller and more nimble. Most likely larger than the Argo buggy, and more armoured for sure, but I don't think that a tank would be the right way to go, especially not that particular one; for all that I love Halo, it's far too blocky and clunky for Starfleet.

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